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fembuckI keep going back and reading more, even though I know it's bad for me! Why? Why do I do this?
The follwing was written by drza44 over at Rhombus and it has done what I thought was impossible ... it has made me want to read the next book in the series (wishy-washy? Me?? Surely you jest!)
For the record, I'm the 'cynic' referred to at the bottom and the label is totally deserved, I was ranting and being a hater. So here is part of the post I made that's being responded to:
Me Being A Hater
What Kim's answer to that question said to me was that she thinks people are getting bored with the slow burn, and is going to stop the progression for X number of books. I think this is stupid and a cop out. Things HAVE been growing steadily and you can't have them suddenly put breaks on their feelings. She's already put brakes on their actions, but the feeling have continued to grow and need to be addressed. She's trying to halt their development because now that they are no longer terrified of each other, can control their actions much better, and are practically soulmates, it MAKES NO SENSE FOR THEM NOT TO ACT ON THEIR FEELINGS. I'd say she can stretch things out for another book until they are at the point where things HAVE to come to a head, where Rachel has to have that 'aha' moment you talked about.
drza44's awesome response
As I said before, I think the chances of Ravy being the end-game are probably around 50/50. But we pretty much know that it won't be a they-try-it-then-break-up thing because KH has said that we won't get a final answer till the last book (and this seems like something she'd be telling the truth about without having to parse words). We also know that in the last book Rachel figures out how to save Ivy's soul (per KH) and that both Rachel and Ivy get a happily ever after ending. So, the question is whether that is with each other or with someone else, and I do believe that KH may still be floating whether to go with it or not.
That said, in the short term I don't expect to see the Ravy armageddon (i.e. all stop) that you point out, because frankly I don't think KH has the will or the desire to flat end it now. There have been exactly 2 consistencies across all 7 books so far: Rachel's magic level grows, and Rachel and Ivy's relationship develops. That's it. Trent comes and goes, Jenks has come and gone, Big Al, Piscary, werewolves, vampires, demons...EVERYTHING has been variable per book outside of Rachel's magic growing and Rachel/Ivy developing.
So what I expect is that, if anything, she'll take on a different angle in their development. Piggybacking on my post from earlier (but going further back), you could break the series down like this:
Pre-series: Ivy wants Rachel, Rachel is straight and scared of vampires
Book 1 Ravy issue: getting them in same place and establishing Ivy may have interest (check)
Book 2 Ravy issue: getting over fear of vampires (enter Nick the human who grew up around inderlanders, and spends lots of face time describing how honorable what Ivy wants is and how much Rachel and Ivy make a great team while also showing how much vamp scars can light up sex even when non-vamps use them)
Book 3 Ravy issue: Get Rachel over fear of vampires part 2, start getting her used to idea that Ivy wants her for more than just scion, start making Rachel aware how important Ivy is to her (enter Kisten the vamp who grew up with Ivy, makes vampirism sexy but safe enough for Rachel's (and the readers') tender sensibilities, enter Skimmer the ex-girlfriend who makes Rachel jealous and uncomfortable, enter Newt the demon that uses Rachel's love for Ivy to send her home).
Book 4 Ravy issue: time to take it up a notch physically and get the readers used to Rachel and Ivy getting hot and heavy (The incident in the van, check)...now, STOP before it gets out of control as the goose isn't cooked yet (hello Ivy loses control, Jenks tries to kill her).
Book 5 Ravy issue: was it just adrenaline and pheromones, or was it more? Also, let's get the readers used to the concept of Rachel and Ivy with their lips on each other (The kiss, Rachel's wrangling all book about how she feels about Ivy. And as a side note, let's re-emphasize how great vamp stuff can make sex)...now STOP, before it gets out of control as the goose isn't cooked yet (bye bye Kisten).
Book 6 Ravy issue: (went through it in detail last post). Cliffnotes: need to show Rachel and readers that she cares for Ivy outside of the pheromones, so hello one last screaming O before no more blood swap.
Book 7 Ravy issue: (again, covered in detail last post). Cliffnotes: need to show both Rachel and the readers that in the absence of pheromones, Rachel and Ivy's relationship is even stronger. IMO, done and done.
So now, what issues are still on the table (trying to think like KH, here)? There are 3, that I can think of: 1) Rachel has still never admitted on camera that she actually is "wired that way" when it comes to Ivy, 2) Could the developments of the last 2 books REALLY be considered an epic! friendship instead of love?, and 3) (the biggie) Rachel is immature and Ivy has a lot of needs, so we've got to grow Rachel up some more and Ivy has to get more secure in herself.
So, what do we know about books 8 and 9? We know that Ivy will be dating Glenn in book 8, we strongly suspect that Rachel and Pierce hook up in book 8, and we know that book 9 is a road trip book that (from what I've been able to gather) will involve Trent, Ivy, and Jenks going somewhere with Rachel. We've also seen KH say that she purposefully puts Trent around Rachel a lot in book 9 with the idea that if anything is ever going to happen between them, it would be then. Finally, we have KH emphasizing that book 8 is the book where Rachel "grows up".
When I compare the issues with the "knowns", I see lots of potential for book 8, especially for point (3) and possibly the other two as well. For one, as I said before, I expect Rachel to give it a try with her "Rachel candy prototype", and I expect it to not go as well as she would want. If book 9 really is supposed to be a possible show-case for Trent, that tells me that by then Pierce could very well have come and gone. I expect that whatever causes Rachel/Pierce to not last could be part of Rachel's growing up process, which is a good thing for our girl Ivy since every Rachel ex has pushed her more towards Ivy.
I also am very interested to see how Ivy/Glenn is handled, because Glenn could be a way to touch on issue (1) above, if Rachel becomes jealous in such a way that even she can't blame it on anything else anymore. With Skimmer Rachel's jealous reactions could be explained away by her not liking Skimmer, Skimmer being jealous of her, and/or Skimmer maybe not being good for Ivy. Same with Rynn, though to a lesser degree all around. David didn't make Rachel jealous, but he was never more than a crush on-screen so therefore no threat. But Glen is a good friend, and if he and Ivy hit it off it could encroach on the ground Rachel has been taking for granted. Potential, here. Plus, If Ivy can have a healthy relationship with Glen (presumably without blood) then it shows that she can do it, and it further separates her from the person Piscary was building her to be (and the one that Rachel is too "flaky" to fulfill the needs of). I also wouldn't be surprised at all to have Ivy finally blow up on Rachel in the next book or 2 about Ivy having to move on if Rachel doesn't want her (likely tied into how Rachel responds to her and Glen).
So again, I ended up writing a book where I hoped to write a memo. But at the end of all this writing, I'll say again that KH has addressed the Rachel/Ivy relationship differently in every book and I expect that to continue in book 8. So while I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't any more serious heart-to-hearts between our girls in the next volume, that doesn't bother me so much because KH has already established that they have massive non-lust love for each other. It's the same as how it doesn't bother me that we didn't get a bite last book, since KH has already established that they have massive bite-lust for each other already. From all of KH's Oracle-like statements, she's very clear that the biggest obstacle that she currently sees between Rav;y is the idea that Rachel isn't grown enough and Ivy is too needy. So I really think that's the next development theme in the books. So I'm hoping that KH slides us some tasty scenes in the next book or two, but I think the meat of the Ravy development doesn't even have to happen with them on screen together. Which kinda sucks...but still, I don't think a lack of face interraction (if it happens like that) would necessarily mean things were moving in the wrong direction. I think it's just more of what KH perceives needs to happen before neither Rachel nor her readers can really fight it anymore.
And while I share your cynical view that Ravy hasn't happened due to audience concerns, I'm not quite as cynical as you to the motives. As you point out, KH has already gotten her readers pretty far along the path to Ravy without making them admit it yet. A few more books of a development here and a development there, and even the die-hards will run out of ways to justify it. If anything, I would think that's KH's ulterior motive. Can she build a relationship that nobody can deny, even without actually admitting that such a relationship exists. At least, that's how I see it.
Seriously, doesn't that just make you want to [Bring It On] yell like you care about something? [/BIO]
P.S. If you go to pg. 22 of the Quotes from Kim's Website thread, you can read another amazing break down of the Rachel/Ivy relationship and why it must be inevitable from drza44.
This is probably the best explanation of what's going on in the books, and what's likely to go on in the books that I've read. If things go as out lined here, I'm still gonna hate on K.H for being a lying liar who lies (and cock-blocks and is a book extension shenanigan-izer), but I will be insanely happy with the series overall arc and conclusion.
You know, I wish the things Kim said could make me half as excited as what is behind the cut did. Seriously, she should get drza44 to do PR for her, because I'm almost officially pumped for this series again, and that right there is a miracle, and who wouldn't want a miracle worker on their side?
The follwing was written by drza44 over at Rhombus and it has done what I thought was impossible ... it has made me want to read the next book in the series (wishy-washy? Me?? Surely you jest!)
For the record, I'm the 'cynic' referred to at the bottom and the label is totally deserved, I was ranting and being a hater. So here is part of the post I made that's being responded to:
Me Being A Hater
What Kim's answer to that question said to me was that she thinks people are getting bored with the slow burn, and is going to stop the progression for X number of books. I think this is stupid and a cop out. Things HAVE been growing steadily and you can't have them suddenly put breaks on their feelings. She's already put brakes on their actions, but the feeling have continued to grow and need to be addressed. She's trying to halt their development because now that they are no longer terrified of each other, can control their actions much better, and are practically soulmates, it MAKES NO SENSE FOR THEM NOT TO ACT ON THEIR FEELINGS. I'd say she can stretch things out for another book until they are at the point where things HAVE to come to a head, where Rachel has to have that 'aha' moment you talked about.
drza44's awesome response
As I said before, I think the chances of Ravy being the end-game are probably around 50/50. But we pretty much know that it won't be a they-try-it-then-break-up thing because KH has said that we won't get a final answer till the last book (and this seems like something she'd be telling the truth about without having to parse words). We also know that in the last book Rachel figures out how to save Ivy's soul (per KH) and that both Rachel and Ivy get a happily ever after ending. So, the question is whether that is with each other or with someone else, and I do believe that KH may still be floating whether to go with it or not.
That said, in the short term I don't expect to see the Ravy armageddon (i.e. all stop) that you point out, because frankly I don't think KH has the will or the desire to flat end it now. There have been exactly 2 consistencies across all 7 books so far: Rachel's magic level grows, and Rachel and Ivy's relationship develops. That's it. Trent comes and goes, Jenks has come and gone, Big Al, Piscary, werewolves, vampires, demons...EVERYTHING has been variable per book outside of Rachel's magic growing and Rachel/Ivy developing.
So what I expect is that, if anything, she'll take on a different angle in their development. Piggybacking on my post from earlier (but going further back), you could break the series down like this:
Pre-series: Ivy wants Rachel, Rachel is straight and scared of vampires
Book 1 Ravy issue: getting them in same place and establishing Ivy may have interest (check)
Book 2 Ravy issue: getting over fear of vampires (enter Nick the human who grew up around inderlanders, and spends lots of face time describing how honorable what Ivy wants is and how much Rachel and Ivy make a great team while also showing how much vamp scars can light up sex even when non-vamps use them)
Book 3 Ravy issue: Get Rachel over fear of vampires part 2, start getting her used to idea that Ivy wants her for more than just scion, start making Rachel aware how important Ivy is to her (enter Kisten the vamp who grew up with Ivy, makes vampirism sexy but safe enough for Rachel's (and the readers') tender sensibilities, enter Skimmer the ex-girlfriend who makes Rachel jealous and uncomfortable, enter Newt the demon that uses Rachel's love for Ivy to send her home).
Book 4 Ravy issue: time to take it up a notch physically and get the readers used to Rachel and Ivy getting hot and heavy (The incident in the van, check)...now, STOP before it gets out of control as the goose isn't cooked yet (hello Ivy loses control, Jenks tries to kill her).
Book 5 Ravy issue: was it just adrenaline and pheromones, or was it more? Also, let's get the readers used to the concept of Rachel and Ivy with their lips on each other (The kiss, Rachel's wrangling all book about how she feels about Ivy. And as a side note, let's re-emphasize how great vamp stuff can make sex)...now STOP, before it gets out of control as the goose isn't cooked yet (bye bye Kisten).
Book 6 Ravy issue: (went through it in detail last post). Cliffnotes: need to show Rachel and readers that she cares for Ivy outside of the pheromones, so hello one last screaming O before no more blood swap.
Book 7 Ravy issue: (again, covered in detail last post). Cliffnotes: need to show both Rachel and the readers that in the absence of pheromones, Rachel and Ivy's relationship is even stronger. IMO, done and done.
So now, what issues are still on the table (trying to think like KH, here)? There are 3, that I can think of: 1) Rachel has still never admitted on camera that she actually is "wired that way" when it comes to Ivy, 2) Could the developments of the last 2 books REALLY be considered an epic! friendship instead of love?, and 3) (the biggie) Rachel is immature and Ivy has a lot of needs, so we've got to grow Rachel up some more and Ivy has to get more secure in herself.
So, what do we know about books 8 and 9? We know that Ivy will be dating Glenn in book 8, we strongly suspect that Rachel and Pierce hook up in book 8, and we know that book 9 is a road trip book that (from what I've been able to gather) will involve Trent, Ivy, and Jenks going somewhere with Rachel. We've also seen KH say that she purposefully puts Trent around Rachel a lot in book 9 with the idea that if anything is ever going to happen between them, it would be then. Finally, we have KH emphasizing that book 8 is the book where Rachel "grows up".
When I compare the issues with the "knowns", I see lots of potential for book 8, especially for point (3) and possibly the other two as well. For one, as I said before, I expect Rachel to give it a try with her "Rachel candy prototype", and I expect it to not go as well as she would want. If book 9 really is supposed to be a possible show-case for Trent, that tells me that by then Pierce could very well have come and gone. I expect that whatever causes Rachel/Pierce to not last could be part of Rachel's growing up process, which is a good thing for our girl Ivy since every Rachel ex has pushed her more towards Ivy.
I also am very interested to see how Ivy/Glenn is handled, because Glenn could be a way to touch on issue (1) above, if Rachel becomes jealous in such a way that even she can't blame it on anything else anymore. With Skimmer Rachel's jealous reactions could be explained away by her not liking Skimmer, Skimmer being jealous of her, and/or Skimmer maybe not being good for Ivy. Same with Rynn, though to a lesser degree all around. David didn't make Rachel jealous, but he was never more than a crush on-screen so therefore no threat. But Glen is a good friend, and if he and Ivy hit it off it could encroach on the ground Rachel has been taking for granted. Potential, here. Plus, If Ivy can have a healthy relationship with Glen (presumably without blood) then it shows that she can do it, and it further separates her from the person Piscary was building her to be (and the one that Rachel is too "flaky" to fulfill the needs of). I also wouldn't be surprised at all to have Ivy finally blow up on Rachel in the next book or 2 about Ivy having to move on if Rachel doesn't want her (likely tied into how Rachel responds to her and Glen).
So again, I ended up writing a book where I hoped to write a memo. But at the end of all this writing, I'll say again that KH has addressed the Rachel/Ivy relationship differently in every book and I expect that to continue in book 8. So while I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't any more serious heart-to-hearts between our girls in the next volume, that doesn't bother me so much because KH has already established that they have massive non-lust love for each other. It's the same as how it doesn't bother me that we didn't get a bite last book, since KH has already established that they have massive bite-lust for each other already. From all of KH's Oracle-like statements, she's very clear that the biggest obstacle that she currently sees between Rav;y is the idea that Rachel isn't grown enough and Ivy is too needy. So I really think that's the next development theme in the books. So I'm hoping that KH slides us some tasty scenes in the next book or two, but I think the meat of the Ravy development doesn't even have to happen with them on screen together. Which kinda sucks...but still, I don't think a lack of face interraction (if it happens like that) would necessarily mean things were moving in the wrong direction. I think it's just more of what KH perceives needs to happen before neither Rachel nor her readers can really fight it anymore.
And while I share your cynical view that Ravy hasn't happened due to audience concerns, I'm not quite as cynical as you to the motives. As you point out, KH has already gotten her readers pretty far along the path to Ravy without making them admit it yet. A few more books of a development here and a development there, and even the die-hards will run out of ways to justify it. If anything, I would think that's KH's ulterior motive. Can she build a relationship that nobody can deny, even without actually admitting that such a relationship exists. At least, that's how I see it.
Seriously, doesn't that just make you want to [Bring It On] yell like you care about something? [/BIO]
P.S. If you go to pg. 22 of the Quotes from Kim's Website thread, you can read another amazing break down of the Rachel/Ivy relationship and why it must be inevitable from drza44.
This is probably the best explanation of what's going on in the books, and what's likely to go on in the books that I've read. If things go as out lined here, I'm still gonna hate on K.H for being a lying liar who lies (and cock-blocks and is a book extension shenanigan-izer), but I will be insanely happy with the series overall arc and conclusion.
You know, I wish the things Kim said could make me half as excited as what is behind the cut did. Seriously, she should get drza44 to do PR for her, because I'm almost officially pumped for this series again, and that right there is a miracle, and who wouldn't want a miracle worker on their side?
