And that's a good thing?

[fembuck]

Okay, so putting aside the fact that I lurve the Khase for a moment, I just can't understand the arugments made by Marcus/Krista shipper's as to why the relationship is so dreamy and wonderful. I can understand the people's who's argument for like Krista/Marcus is "I like bad boys and Marcus is hot and I like the dysfunctionality of it" because they're admitting the M/K relationship is screwed up and dark but they find that interesting. Marcus is a good looking guy and appeal of bad boy/girls is totally understandable (see: my undying love for Chase).


"I don't have a problem with Marcus and Krista, despite the awful things he has done to her. There are plenty of real world examples of abusive relationships or of lovers hurting one another."

Um, and that's a good thing? Just because people are in abusive relationships in real life that's no reason that it should be celebrated on tv even if the characters are vampires! I mean really. Should the show turn a pimp (cause he did whore Chase out ya'll)/dealer/abusive boyfriend into leading man? Hell to the no. That argument right there is all that needs to be said against Marcus/Krista. If you want to show how horrible Marcus is and how he should be reviled and ashed for treating Krista that way, okay, but he should not been written/presented as some swoon worthy leading man when by the M/K's shipper's own acknowledgement he's an abuser and they're in an abusive relationship

*mind boogles*

"Plus it speaks to the conflicted nature and emotions of Krista right now."

Once again, this makes him seem even more reprehensible. She's confused and vulnerable and he's exploiting that. I mean perhaps if he had turned her away two episodes ago citing that neither of them were in the right frame of mind, or that it was just the visions and bloodlust that were making her act that way, it might have at least set the stage for Marcus seeming like he actually cared about Krista instead of just wanted to bang her. But he doesn't do that, he just takes what he wants like always by exploiting the uncertainty and vulnerablity in her that he was responsible for. And that's a good thing?


"But let's be honest, Marcus and Krista have both done a lot more than have sex-which was one time. But look at all the development and things that have happened to each over the season, way before the role in the hay."

Yeah, a lot more has happened between them. Like he killed her twin brother, he had her kidnapped, strapped her down and forcibly injected her with his blood before throwing her off a building. Then once he had successfully turned her into a blood craving addict his first gift to her was to have her kill a man, and then after that he showed a complete lack of common curtesy by constantly busting in on her while she was half dressed. But he DIDN'T want to bothered helping her transition other that making long ass speeches, instead he gave that job to his assistant to do because it was boring and he didn't care as long as Chase got Krista in a bloodlust froth that would lead her to his bed. Then he sends her on missions where she might die, but doesn't really have any meaningful conversations with her. And then when she's clearly having serious problems he beats her, drugs her, forces memories upon her and sleeps with her.

Yeah, that's tons of development. Though mostly that development has been developing Marcus as as evil, selfish prick instead of developing a real relationship between him and Krista. And that evil, selfish prick development applies to his relationship with Chase as well, so it's really an all around prickitude instead of just with Krista.

"They've both changed, and their tryst will change them more."

Yep, Krista became a blood thirsty killer that was out hunting people. And Marcus ... didn't change at all. Apparently after they got busy Krista just left and he was all 'smell ya later' without asking where she was going because he had no clue where she was when Chase dropped by to see him. He might have seemed like he gave a shit if he'd asked "Is Krista back from hunting yet, I haven't seen her" but instead he had absolutely no idea what was going on.

"Krista and Marcus's revelations have shed more light on their characters and set them up to go in different directions."

Yeah, like showing us that Krista should run in the opposite direction to wherever Marcus is going if she doesn't want to continue being victimized and exploited.

Like call me silly, this argument makes me hate the ship even more instead of drawing me over to the darkside.

Comments

[murasaki1200.livejournal.com]

she voiced to Blade a couple of times that she wanted to be done with being at Chthon undercover which showed that she wasn't in love with Marcus because she would have left him in a hot minute.

Funny, I took Krista telling Blade she wanted to be done to mean that she wanted to stop working for Blade, taking the serum and having to deal with all that. Pretty much taking serum means if any vamp finds out, she's toast. So taking serum means being undercover. Therefore if she wants to stop being undercover, she has to stop the serum.
Problem is she can stop working undercover but she can't stop being a vampire. If she stops the serum, she's got to go on blood.
Which means either she's undercover and taking serum or she's not working with Blade and feeding on blood.

I suppose the day she stops working undercover for Blade, a number of things could happen:
1. Blade could ash her.
2. Krista could stay with Chthon and be a regular vampire. This is her most likely path while she's still trying to figure out how to deal with being a vampire.
3. Krista could go to Leichen after a while
4. Krista could become houseless: somehow this doesn't sound like a great option for someone who's still new at this.

These issues have got to be what's running through Krista's head.

As far as being in love with Marcus, how could she fall for someone who's killed her twin, has been both keeping her under his thumb and ignoring her and last but not least, is the biggest threat (Blade is a close second) to her life if he figures out that she's working for Blade?

Plus she wouldn't have waited for Blade and Shen to come back after the detox if she was in love with Marcus. She would have gone back to Chthon the minute she could.

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

Funny, I took Krista telling Blade she wanted to be done to mean that she wanted to stop working for Blade, taking the serum and having to deal with all that.

Oh I definately took it as Krista wanting to be done with Blade too not just wanting to get away from Marcus. She's sick of fighting (i.e. when she told Blade how she was jealous about how easily Boone was able to embrace his vampirism) but she's terrified of giving in as well. Krista's actually in a really shitty position, and she probably deep deep down inside holds some resentment again Blade for trying to keep her human. Like I'm sure at times she's thought about how much easier it would have been if he'd just left her alone after she'd been turned, but because he didn't, because she's on the serum and thinking like a human her morals won't let her stop taking the serum. A sucky position for her, but interesting to watch and speculate about!

Pretty much taking serum means if any vamp finds out, she's toast. So taking serum means being undercover.

I think that if Blade was willing to keep supplying her with serum that she could probably keep it underwraps. I mean she's been taking the serum in the heart of a vampire coven for months and no one has found out, so if she were to go off on her own her secret would probably be safe. The problem is I don't know if Blade would want to bother supplying her with serum all the time if she wasn't working with him, or at least continuing to fight the good fight.

I suppose the day she stops working undercover for Blade, a number of things could happen [...]

1. If she really just gave into the vamp instincts I could see him doing this. However if she just walked away, I can't really see him just decapitating her. She's probably get a 'next time we met you're going down' comment and it would be on.
2. This is a likely option if she's given into the bloodlust when she walks away. If she's still under the influence of the serum and thinking straight I could see her wanting to get away from Chthon because of the bad memories/experiences. Because I think the last thing she would want is to stay and become like Chase 2.0, lol.
3. Definately could see that, and I think that we probably WILL see this on the show. Leichen is like her only option right now if she wants to remain herself and not give into the bloodlust but also leave Blade and being undercover. Leichen right now is the only way to slightly reconcile those two things. Plus unlike Krista taking off for parts unknown or being a pile of ash it leads to drama with the whole Krista running to Frederick while Chase hates Frederick. And also the Krista leaving Marcus for another sugar daddy which Marcus probably wouldn't be too happy about.
4. Yeah, being houseless probably wouldn't be the best route. But Krista's pretty smart and resourceful and could probably find a way to survive without a house taking care of her. Plus, it might be good for her to try living on her own, being a lone wolf in the night as it were, before realizing that she needs a purpose in her life (and thus goes back to Blade), or that she needs her pack (thus going back to Chthon) or something like that. It could be like a journey of self-discovery or something.

Plus she wouldn't have waited for Blade and Shen to come back after the detox if she was in love with Marcus. She would have gone back to Chthon the minute she could.

I think this is very significant for it not being true love as well. If she loved Marcus and couldn't wait to get back into his arms she wouldn't have waited, she would have taken off. But she stayed, and was a shame-faced, sad-sack to boot. I think she's still connected to Marcus and attracted to him, but that has to do with blood and she'll probably always feel some it (like Chase for Frederick), but she better effing hate him (like Chase with Frederick). Making it true love just cheapens the character of Krista, and would make her dead to me.

[trancer21.livejournal.com]

Like I'm sure at times she's thought about how much easier it would have been if he'd just left her alone after she'd been turned, but because he didn't, because she's on the serum and thinking like a human her morals won't let her stop taking the serum.

In their own way, both the men in Krista's life are trying to control her and both are using forms of addiction to do it, Marcus in keeping her addicted, Blade in trying to keep her clean. And it's really sucky for Krista because both are more than willing to drop her the moment she no longer fulfills their self-interests. Yeah, I can totally see Krista saying 'to Hell with you both' and moving into Leichen.

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

In their own way, both the men in Krista's life are trying to control her and both are using forms of addiction to do it, Marcus in keeping her addicted, Blade in trying to keep her clean.

So true. I mean Blade is the better option, but both of them are shamelessly using the woman. She's canon fodder for Blade, and some sort of concubine for Marcus or something. For of them it's all about what she can do for them.

At the end of the season I would love to see Krista bascially tell both of them to fuck off and walk off into the darkness lone samurai style or something, and then see her with the House of Leichen in the season 2 opener. Honestly Frederick showed more concern for her, and had more of an honest conversation with her than either Blade or Marcus has had. He kinda trumps Chase in that department too because he let his concern be seen whereas she hides it behind sarcasm and jealousy.

If that happens I totally think The House of Leichen will turn out to be evil in some way which will send Krista back to Blade, but it would be an awesome story arc that would return some autonomy to the character. Plus, more Frederick (and most likely Chase/Frederick backstory), and minimal to no Marcus :D

[thelana.livejournal.com]

The difference is that Blade doesn't pretend that this is love or about concern. In fact, he doesn't do anything to make his postition remotely attractive to her (which is actually shame, since you could argue that his position is the more attractive one, being good and all that;). Either because his people skills are roughly negative 7 trillion, because deep down he really doesn't want any allies or because he is letting his vampire prejudices cloud his judgement.

Don't get me wrong, Krista should totally tell Blade to screw off and at this point she doesn't owe him anything. The question is whether she will be able to make the distinction between rejecting Blade (who is a dick to her) and rejecting the ideology (fighting the good fight).

But yeah, was there ever any person more screaming for a hug than Krista when she walked out that cell? I was like, dammit, give her a hug and sprout off some nice ideology and she'll totally be on your side forever. This is the moment, she is torn, this is the time to pounce her (ideologically) and win her over. But yeah, Blade doesn't work that way. (and if it leads to independant Krista then I'm all for it)

[trancer21.livejournal.com]

The difference is that Blade doesn't pretend that this is love or about concern.

I'd argue just the opposite. Blade has shown he cares for Krista.. more than she should. I think he's operating from a deep sense of guilt which is why, at this point in time, Krista's not a smoking pile of ash, which she should be. It's just Blade shows his concern the only way he knows how - as a warrior. That and, like you said, he has the social skills of a gnat. Killing vamps is the only life he's known. There is no other way as far as Blade's concerned. If he hasn't given her a motivational speech it's because he doesn't believe he has to. As far as Blade's concerned, which side to choose is a no-brainer - 'get with the program or get ashed'.

I suppose I should note I'm a closet Blade/Krista shipper. The Big Guy needs some lovin' too, dammit. If Blade's not softening up to Krista, it's not because he can't or hasn't. It's because Krista's living with Marcus 24/7. Doesn't make him any less of a douche, but still, he's a better option than Marcus.

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Oh, I totally agree that Blade has been softer with her. Hehe, and you and me, we probably are the only two closet Blade/Krista shippers out there :)

But it's just that with Blade softening only goes far. Which is why he can't back off the "get with the program or get ashed" even if he does like her/feels guilt over Zach. Protocol always comes first if possible.

Either way, I am hoping for some more major Krista/Blade interaction next season. I'll take antagonistic friendship and weapon buddies if I can't get shippy.

But yeah, the point is that Marcus waxes on poetically when he is using her. While Blade is really upfront about her purpose, maybe even too upfront. Which of course... hurts for the person.

If he hasn't given her a motivational speech it's because he doesn't believe he has to.

I really like that idea. Must be nice for him to meet somebody who might share his ideology. Or just be in the same situation as him when it comes to battling the thirst. Which really, is all Blade is about (reinforced again by his mini speech to Krista and him saying that killing vamps is the only thing that makes him feel better => Blade one screwed up mofo. Like we didn't know that since his vision about his own mom killing him.).

Though even if he doesn't think Krista agrees with his believes anyway, maybe for him the whole concept is either something you understand or if you don't then he can't help you. Like it is something that shouldn't need convincing from the outside.

[trancer21.livejournal.com]

Which is why he can't back off the "get with the program or get ashed" even if he does like her/feels guilt over Zach.

I think he can't back down because the consequences are too dire if he does. Give Krista an inch and, well, she's vamping her Mom, sleeping with the enemy and about to snack on some humans. He's like a voluntary Atlas, carrying the world on his shoulders because he doesn't think anyone else is capable of sharing the weight. Then there's his self-loathing, he can't back down because if Blade does, he becomes the monster he hates.

Must be nice for him to meet somebody who might share his ideology.

Except, even when he does meet people who share his ideology, he holds them at arms length, ref. Blade: Trinity and the Nightstalkers or even Shen. Something I wish the show would delve into a little more. Despite his stoic and taciturn ways, Blade definitely has layers.

Dammit, now I need a Krista/Blade icon!

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Then there's his self-loathing, he can't back down because if Blade does, he becomes the monster he hates.

And in fighting those monsters, he suppresses almost everything that makes him human. Making the vamps, who at least love and hate and have fun come off as more human than he is.

Hah, I could write whole essays about how wonderfully screwed up Blade is. I certainly find him an interesting character on paper. :)

Except, even when he does meet people who share his ideology, he holds them at arms length, ref. Blade: Trinity and the Nightstalkers or even Shen.

I think he is just completely entrenched in this war mentality, where people are going down left and right (at least in his mind) and he figures that there is no point in getting attached to anybody because they are all going to die sooner or later anyway (including him). And that any emotional ties make you weak and you and them a target. And Blade is all about suppressing from everything that could make him weak or dependant (like this thirst).

Or course forgetting that he does depend on others. For one he has this uncurable lack of people skills and he will always need people like Shen to help him out with that. Yeah, he does try to pretend that he doesn't need people skills or that his other abilities (like strenght) make up for it, but in the end he is going to run into situation where that just isn't enough.

[thelana.livejournal.com]

I think this is very significant for it not being true love as well. If she loved Marcus and couldn't wait to get back into his arms she wouldn't have waited, she would have taken off. But she stayed, and was a shame-faced, sad-sack to boot. I think she's still connected to Marcus and attracted to him, but that has to do with blood and she'll probably always feel some it (like Chase for Frederick), but she better effing hate him (like Chase with Frederick). Making it true love just cheapens the character of Krista, and would make her dead to me.

I'm not convinced. Rather, I'm not sure whether Krista is on Blade's side at this point. I could picture her, if she has feelings for Marcus, wanting to protect him. Maybe leak some (true) stuff to Blade, but no stuff that would immediately endanger Marcus. Like she doesn't care if the pureblood plan goes up into flames, but she doesn't want Marcus hurt.

I'm not saying that that is what will happen, but that's one scenario I could picture. Especially since the turn around from Yay! Marcus to back to Blade strikes me as a bit quick. I might not like the Marcus/Krista thing, but Krista growing more and more distances from Blade has been built up over time (like with the speech she gave about wanting to be like Boone).

We haven't really seen her have a big "OMG, it was just the blood! I was manipulated and none of my feelings were real." moment.

Of course, the situation is curious. Like her getting up post sex to feed rather than snuggle with her new honey bunny. I could picture pissy!vamp!Krista (triggered by drinking his blood) waking up and going "Uh, why did I feel sorry for him again? How lame." because being full vamp is supposed to make you less sympathetic/empathic.

*bites nails and wants next episode to see where all of this is going*

[murasaki1200.livejournal.com]

The problem is I don't know if Blade would want to bother supplying her with serum all the time
Maybe Shen would go to the trouble of keeping Krista supplied, it just seems the show's dropped serious hints she wants to be done with the serum. The fact that she's lost her ties to the human world is more likely to make her embrace an extreme path, like fighting the good fight or accepting her vampire nature more fully. Not the blood lust though, the way she's been portrayed so far or at least not for long. It's pretty much a given she'll end up at Leichen.

it leads to drama with the whole Krista running to Frederick while Chase hates Frederick. And also the Krista leaving Marcus for another sugar daddy which Marcus probably wouldn't be too happy about.

Yes, esp. since as you pointed out Frederick is also quite the bad guy.

she'll probably always feel some it (like Chase for Frederick), but she better effing hate him (like Chase with Frederick). Making it true love just cheapens the character of Krista

Marcus definitely has her number because of the blood connection, that seems to be a fact of vampire life. Thankfully, the last ep didn't seem to be getting overly sentimental about what that meant though. Based on the previews of Chase moving in on Krista, it looks like she's not expecting Krista sleeping with Marcus to equate to undying love either, and she should know.

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

Maybe Shen would go to the trouble of keeping Krista supplied

Shen hasn't exactly been pro-Krista though. I think if Krista walked away from the operation that Shen would be for the ashing of her, because I think he doubts that she could control her vampire nature. Of the two of them Blade has always been more 'sure' of Krista. Of course Shen might be playing devils advocate, but just like Blade hasn't spent that much time with Krista neither has Shen to become really attached to her.

Marcus definitely has her number because of the blood connection, that seems to be a fact of vampire life. Thankfully, the last ep didn't seem to be getting overly sentimental about what that meant though. Based on the previews of Chase moving in on Krista, it looks like she's not expecting Krista sleeping with Marcus to equate to undying love either, and she should know.

Yeah, Marcus didn't seem to broken up about Krista being MIA (just like he didn't seem to care when she was gone a couple eps. before turning her mother) which is a good sign as well. If he had been all concerned with her whereabouts instead of throwing out a casual "have you seen?" I might have been worried.

And I'm interested to see what Chase's motivation is for moving in on Krista. I mean it could be as simple as once she finds out that Krista slept with Marcus she feels like Krista has embraced her vamptitude enough to respond to her. Or maybe she's trying to taint Krista in Marcus' eyes by showing how fickle and easy Krista is if she responds to Chase as well. Or maybe she needs Krista's help for something and decides to try a little tenderness instead of poking her in the head and insulting her like usual. Or maybe she's trying to prove to Krista that vampires can feel that type of desire without it meaning love by making Krista desire her even though Krista doesn't like her. I don't know, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

[murasaki1200.livejournal.com]

just like Blade hasn't spent that much time with Krista neither has Shen to become really attached to her

True. I think Shen has a soft spot for her though ("I know you can do it Krista"). In any case, I really don't see Krista staying on the serum unless she decides to join the fight for real, which may be an arc at some point.

maybe she needs Krista's help for something and decides to try a little tenderness instead of poking her in the head and insulting her like usual

But it's so much fun to see Chase poking Krista in the head and insulting her, and *then* moving in on her :D.
I'm really curious what Chase's motivation is also. It actually may be some mixture of all three plus some of the same reason Chase had to take a taste of the blood on Krista's stomach right after Marcus did it. Like, if Krista's Marcus', she's Chase's too, 'cause Marcus and Chase are tight like that.
Which goes back to: what's up with Chase and Marcus?

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

In any case, I really don't see Krista staying on the serum unless she decides to join the fight for real, which may be an arc at some point.

Totally agree. And Krista finding herself, her purpose, what she wants to do with herself and this new life she has really needs to be an arc. Because the revenge of her brother is really a moot point now (since Chase and Frederick prove that even if Krista still wanted to kill Marcus the blood in her veins/connection to Marcus would stop her from doing it), and right now she's fighting Blade's fight, and she needs to find out what she's about. I would expect that she'd eventually realize she wants to fight the same fight Blade is, but we should have a Krista arc (probably starting with her fleeing to the House of Leichen) where we get to see her realize this is what she WANTS to do, instead of just something she agreed to out of guilt or whatever.

But it's so much fun to see Chase poking Krista in the head and insulting her, and *then* moving in on her :D.

Chase poking Krista in the head is one of my all time favorite moments on the show. I can't even explain why I found it so funny, probably because Krista didn't even blink like she's so used to Chase manhandling her, poking her, pulling her hair and putting gum under her desk that it doesn't even faze her anymore.

It actually may be some mixture of all three plus some of the same reason Chase had to take a taste of the blood on Krista's stomach right after Marcus did it. Like, if Krista's Marcus', she's Chase's too, 'cause Marcus and Chase are tight like that.

BWAH! Tight like that, LOL. I never even thought about how Chase mimicked Marcus' actions (I was too busy concentrating on the fact that Chase was all stroking her stomach and licking her finger). Also, after Marcus freaked out at Chase and told her to take Krista is around is when Chase started flirting, like if Krista was worth Marcus' time then she was gonna take Krista for a ride too, lol.

Which goes back to: what's up with Chase and Marcus?

I wish to hell I know. They're relationship is so weird. I really liked trancer21's idea of them being brother and sister, because it would explain Chase's loyalty and need to please him, and it would explain why he trusts her and yet can get impatient with her and not always consider her feelings because as her brother he's kinda taking her for granted. But clearly they're not siblings. Then because of Chase's extreme loyalty and jealously there's this vibe that they might have been lovers, but Marcus shows absolutely no sexual interest in her. He kinda seems like he would call her "Pal" and slap her on the back (you know if Marcus slapped people on the back). But then he genuinely cares for her in a way like his beside vigil showed, but can be very callous towards her as well. I'd say their like friends, only he keeps her at a certain distance as well (like in episode 5 Chase still didn't know what his real plan was).

They're relationship is just so bizarre and I want to know what the hell is up with them! It's seriously starting to bug me, lol