And that's a good thing?
Sep. 2nd, 2006 06:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fembuckOkay, so putting aside the fact that I lurve the Khase for a moment, I just can't understand the arugments made by Marcus/Krista shipper's as to why the relationship is so dreamy and wonderful. I can understand the people's who's argument for like Krista/Marcus is "I like bad boys and Marcus is hot and I like the dysfunctionality of it" because they're admitting the M/K relationship is screwed up and dark but they find that interesting. Marcus is a good looking guy and appeal of bad boy/girls is totally understandable (see: my undying love for Chase).
"I don't have a problem with Marcus and Krista, despite the awful things he has done to her. There are plenty of real world examples of abusive relationships or of lovers hurting one another."
Um, and that's a good thing? Just because people are in abusive relationships in real life that's no reason that it should be celebrated on tv even if the characters are vampires! I mean really. Should the show turn a pimp (cause he did whore Chase out ya'll)/dealer/abusive boyfriend into leading man? Hell to the no. That argument right there is all that needs to be said against Marcus/Krista. If you want to show how horrible Marcus is and how he should be reviled and ashed for treating Krista that way, okay, but he should not been written/presented as some swoon worthy leading man when by the M/K's shipper's own acknowledgement he's an abuser and they're in an abusive relationship
*mind boogles*
"Plus it speaks to the conflicted nature and emotions of Krista right now."
Once again, this makes him seem even more reprehensible. She's confused and vulnerable and he's exploiting that. I mean perhaps if he had turned her away two episodes ago citing that neither of them were in the right frame of mind, or that it was just the visions and bloodlust that were making her act that way, it might have at least set the stage for Marcus seeming like he actually cared about Krista instead of just wanted to bang her. But he doesn't do that, he just takes what he wants like always by exploiting the uncertainty and vulnerablity in her that he was responsible for. And that's a good thing?
"But let's be honest, Marcus and Krista have both done a lot more than have sex-which was one time. But look at all the development and things that have happened to each over the season, way before the role in the hay."
Yeah, a lot more has happened between them. Like he killed her twin brother, he had her kidnapped, strapped her down and forcibly injected her with his blood before throwing her off a building. Then once he had successfully turned her into a blood craving addict his first gift to her was to have her kill a man, and then after that he showed a complete lack of common curtesy by constantly busting in on her while she was half dressed. But he DIDN'T want to bothered helping her transition other that making long ass speeches, instead he gave that job to his assistant to do because it was boring and he didn't care as long as Chase got Krista in a bloodlust froth that would lead her to his bed. Then he sends her on missions where she might die, but doesn't really have any meaningful conversations with her. And then when she's clearly having serious problems he beats her, drugs her, forces memories upon her and sleeps with her.
Yeah, that's tons of development. Though mostly that development has been developing Marcus as as evil, selfish prick instead of developing a real relationship between him and Krista. And that evil, selfish prick development applies to his relationship with Chase as well, so it's really an all around prickitude instead of just with Krista.
"They've both changed, and their tryst will change them more."
Yep, Krista became a blood thirsty killer that was out hunting people. And Marcus ... didn't change at all. Apparently after they got busy Krista just left and he was all 'smell ya later' without asking where she was going because he had no clue where she was when Chase dropped by to see him. He might have seemed like he gave a shit if he'd asked "Is Krista back from hunting yet, I haven't seen her" but instead he had absolutely no idea what was going on.
"Krista and Marcus's revelations have shed more light on their characters and set them up to go in different directions."
Yeah, like showing us that Krista should run in the opposite direction to wherever Marcus is going if she doesn't want to continue being victimized and exploited.
Like call me silly, this argument makes me hate the ship even more instead of drawing me over to the darkside.
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Date: 2006-09-02 11:26 pm (UTC)I don't see Marcus/Krista as romantic and swoonworthy. I see it as troubling and possibly detrimental to Krista's emotional growth in the long run.
However, she's feisty and independent and hopefully she won't fall into the same trap Chase did. My fantasy would be for her to help Chase come to her own realisation about her self worth. That would rock.
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Date: 2006-09-02 11:41 pm (UTC)Word. From this perspective the relationship works still. But dark and disturbing are key words there. This is a messed up relationship, that while positive for Marcus is extremely distructive and dangerous for Krista. Marcus is a vampire and thus would have a warped version of love and respect in his mind, and if the writers would characterize his interest in Krista as being warped, and destructive and hurtful to her but also enthralling due to who/what he is then fine. Viewers could root for a couple messed up love scenes and Krista angst but they would want her to kick his ass. The way they've actually done it is so that we the viewer should see Krista as soul mate material like Marcus sees her and that bugs.
If Krista is hating on him (still attracted to but also disgusted by him) when she goes back to Chthon I'll be fine. But if they keep pushing the "their love is pure" crap at me I'll be hatin' hardcore all over the place. Because basically they'd be promoting a abused wife/gf going back to her abusive boyfriend because he's rich, sexy and dresses well. The thrall/char m has to wear off sometime and their little romp should be the thing to take Marcus' shine away from Krista (if killing her brother, killing her and causing her to kill her mother wasn't enough to do that, lol).
And you are right, Marcus is essentially acting like a pimp daddy who's found a new favorite plaything. He may even on some level think she's a good 'soulmate' match for him, but that remains to be seen. He keeps her drugged up enough to remain pliant, he gives her just enough attention to keep her interest focused upon him and on pleasing him.
Disturbing and intriguing just don't expect me to root for it, and certainly don't present it as romantic love writer dudes! Also, very well put.
Chase is essentially the head whore who needs to kick Marcus to the curb, get out and start her own damn brothel. *grins* Shades of Deadwood anyone?
Hee, head whore. Or Firefly for that matter. Chase could totally be the Bladeverse's Nandi, and run her own brothel/gang full of whores with guns who know how to use them!
My fantasy would be for her to help Chase come to her own realisation about her self worth. That would rock.
I would love to see this storyline because Chase needs the wake up call. She moved from one abusive relationship (with Frederick) right into another with Marcus. And she's too kickass for that, though with her past you can see how she'd be more vulnerable to it on a long term basis than Krista.
Chase, you're good enough, you're smart enough and doggonit people like you! Kick that asshat to the curb!
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Date: 2006-09-03 01:16 am (UTC)Chase, you're good enough, you're smart enough and doggonit people like you! Kick that asshat to the curb!
Chase and Krista as vampire lesbian Thelma & Louise? AWESOME.
Krista/Marcus works as long as he's the villain. The dude ruined a woman's life just because he felt like having sex with someone who looked like his dead wife. THAT'S PRETTY EVIL. And hey, if he wants to try to turn her to the Dark Side as part of his whole evil vampire pitch, okay, I can see that. But as soon as you turn it into some epic romance, like they did with Buffy/Spike in later seasons of BtVS, I go ick. It's kinda like that one soap opera where a man raped a woman and later they fell in love and got married. WTF?
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Date: 2006-09-03 02:55 am (UTC)You're a braver soul than I because just seeing what happened in the pilot I knew these were the kind of excuses people would make for this ship. And that's what they are - excuses.
"But let's be honest, Marcus and Krista have both done a lot more than have sex-which was one time. But look at all the development and things that have happened to each over the season, way before the role in the hay."
And this argument works if you forget that, you know, Krista's working undercover and her sole motivation is to kill the man who murdered her brother!! Or that she'd leave at the drop of a hat if Blade told her she was done working undercover. If Krista can't kill Marcus it's not because she doesn't want to, it's because the blood inside her, ie Marcus' blood, keeps her from killing him. Which, you know, is a pretty devious way of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer.
"They've both changed, and their tryst will change them more."
Um, how exactly has Marcus *changed*? We don't know what he was like before he turned Krista other than, you know, shooting her brother in the head and then taunting her about it. Actually, he still taunts her about it because Marcus forcefeeding Krista his blood was another act making it All About Marcus. Any compassion he's shown her has always been *after* dangerous situations Marcus himself put her in. If he loved her wouldn't he keep her in a gilded cage and feed her bon-bons and sing songs with her golden lute?
Saying Marcus has changed is an excuse based on the sexist notion that it's up to the woman to change the Bad Boy. Hey, here's a novel thought - why doesn't the Bad Boy change for *her*? Has Marcus shown an *inkling* of NOT wanting to be anything but a vampire? No. Damek may have ruined his life but Marcus apparently has no problem being a hotshot millionaire because of his vampire status. Everything Marcus has done has been about a) Marcus's feelings and b) keeping/putting him at the top of the food chain. Yeah, that's alot of change right there.
This is my problem with the Marcus character - TPTB want it both ways. They want Marcus to be the villain (in which its Chase who does anything actually villainous) *and* the leading man (he gets to make out with the leading lady *before* the hero does? WTF?). And, no, sorry, the show's called Blade for a reason. Saying they're lost soulmates and it's 'twu wuv' is nothing more than fanwanking to justify the ship. Which is why I stay far from the fandom. I've heard this same tune one damn time too many.
On a sidenote, I saw the casting notes and kinda chuckled when, for the Marcus character, there's a note that says 'name actors only' and considering the "And" title before Neil Jackson's name, *someone* thinks he's a name actor. When all I think when I see the opening credits is - who? If Blade is a series 'that goes there', then they should hopefully have the balls to axe their 'name actor' and move the Hell on. I feel the same way about Jackson as I do Sticky, all the actors in Hollywood, Canada and Britain and they chose *this* guy? If Vanishing can dump their *lead* after only 10 episodes, Blade can afford to lose their villain.. who's not that interesting to begin with.
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Date: 2006-09-03 05:41 am (UTC)Yeah, I knew there would be shippers from the pilot but after the last few episodes I just wanted to see what they could possibly be thinking to justify the ship after all of the crappy things Marcus has done to her since the pilot and this is what I found. I try to avoid M/K shipper threads/the offical boards because posts from M/K shippers that refuse to acknowledge how fucked up the relationship between them is makes my head hurt.
Krista's working undercover and her sole motivation is to kill the man who murdered her brother!! Or that she'd leave at the drop of a hat if Blade told her she was done working undercover. If Krista can't kill Marcus it's not because she doesn't want to, it's because the blood inside her, ie Marcus' blood, keeps her from killing him. Which, you know, is a pretty devious way of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer.
Good point. Up until Marcus' drugging of her, Krista's interactions with him usually held barely controlled contempt and disgust. Plus, she voiced to Blade a couple of times that she wanted to be done with being at Chthon undercover which showed that she wasn't in love with Marcus because she would have left him in a hot minute.
Hey, here's a novel thought - why doesn't the Bad Boy change for *her*? Has Marcus shown an *inkling* of NOT wanting to be anything but a vampire?
So true. Marcus like Chase has embraced his vampireness and revels in it. Only unlike with Chase we've never been told or shown that once he was turned her had any trouble adjusting to what he had become. I imagine Marcus was actually glad to be turned because it gave him the ability and the time to get revenge.
They want Marcus to be the villain (in which its Chase who does anything actually villainous) *and* the leading man (he gets to make out with the leading lady *before* the hero does? WTF?). And, no, sorry, the show's called Blade for a reason. Saying they're lost soulmates and it's 'twu wuv' is nothing more than fanwanking to justify the ship. Which is why I stay far from the fandom. I've heard this same tune one damn time too many.
Bad PTB, bad! And it's true, it's like Charlotte was introduced to be more evil than Marcus so that in comparison he wouldn't seem so bad. And until killing Damek they've had him keep his hands clean of doing any dirty work himself. We haven't even seen him feed from anyone (another way to subtly try and make him seem better than the other vampires like dirty Chase who lies and hunts people).
*Shudders at the thought of having to sit through another Buffy/Spike-esque pairing*
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Date: 2006-09-03 06:35 am (UTC)Which would be a good motivator if they'd let him be evil. Him being a vampire being about overcoming the 'impotency' of his humanity.
And until killing Damek they've had him keep his hands clean of doing any dirty work himself.
True, but we did see him shoot Zach. That and tossing Krista off a ten story building. Plus, he may not have ever wanted to turn Boone, but he didn't have any problem hiring a crooked cop and all the dead prostitutes used to feed his test subjects. I feel that just because Fritz and Chase have done all the dirty work (like Chase torturing a drug addict/mother) doesn't make him any less evil. It just makes him a pansy who doesn't like to get his hands dirty.
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Date: 2006-09-03 02:33 pm (UTC)Funny, I took Krista telling Blade she wanted to be done to mean that she wanted to stop working for Blade, taking the serum and having to deal with all that. Pretty much taking serum means if any vamp finds out, she's toast. So taking serum means being undercover. Therefore if she wants to stop being undercover, she has to stop the serum.
Problem is she can stop working undercover but she can't stop being a vampire. If she stops the serum, she's got to go on blood.
Which means either she's undercover and taking serum or she's not working with Blade and feeding on blood.
I suppose the day she stops working undercover for Blade, a number of things could happen:
1. Blade could ash her.
2. Krista could stay with Chthon and be a regular vampire. This is her most likely path while she's still trying to figure out how to deal with being a vampire.
3. Krista could go to Leichen after a while
4. Krista could become houseless: somehow this doesn't sound like a great option for someone who's still new at this.
These issues have got to be what's running through Krista's head.
As far as being in love with Marcus, how could she fall for someone who's killed her twin, has been both keeping her under his thumb and ignoring her and last but not least, is the biggest threat (Blade is a close second) to her life if he figures out that she's working for Blade?
Plus she wouldn't have waited for Blade and Shen to come back after the detox if she was in love with Marcus. She would have gone back to Chthon the minute she could.
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Date: 2006-09-03 05:46 am (UTC)here's a note that says 'name actors only' and considering the "And" title before Neil Jackson's name, *someone* thinks he's a name actor.
Now that's funny. I always wondered why Neil got the special "and" credit. He's no Anthony Head or James Purefoy to be getting singled out like that. The only thing I'd ever seen him on before this was Sugar Rush and he was just a piece of man meat on that and had like 10 lines the entire season. Name actor that does not make.
And how do I wish that they end Marcus' reign this season and introduce a new baddie(s) for season 2. Honestly his arc should be just about done, let him go out with a bang and move on. There are other pretty actors out there that can act.
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Date: 2006-09-03 06:17 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2006-09-03 03:39 am (UTC)Part of the reason I love Khase, aside from the hot girls aspect, is because it has the darkness and dysfunction, the complexity the Krista/Marcus ship severely lacks. Which makes me question why TPTB are making the narrative choices they are. As I said in a previous post, if the K/M ship weren't being shoved down my throat, I'd swear the real triangle was Blade/Krista/Chase. Because, with Chase and Charlotte on the canvas, it makes Marcus either redundant or, worse, as TPTB using Charlotte and Chase as proxies to make Marcus not look so bad. And if you have to have other characters actually *be* evil for the sake of making your villain look sympathetic* well then you got problems.
* Because, well, just because Marcus' wife was raped and murdered a hundred years ago doesn't make him any less of a douchebag today. I guess I should just be thankful they didn't make him all emo-boy.
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Date: 2006-09-03 05:56 am (UTC)Totally agree. Chase and Krista is complex, and dysfunctional but intriging. Plus, the writers have managed to make Chase more sympathetic through story telling than they've managed to do with Marcus with his very special 'feel sorry for me' episode. Chase has actually bonded with Krista, she's chosen Krista over self-promotion (not letting her die in the warehouse), she's shown concern about Krista's well being (her look of worry in the Leichen blood bath), and the writers have hinted at her having a very good reason for wanted to be a badass. Chase embraced her vampireness (slowly) in order to survive, in order to ensure that she wouldn't be victimized again. Now Chase is by no means perfect, and would need to change her behavior to be a good match for Krista, but the foundation is at least there and Chase has shown her affection for Krista with actions unlike Marcus who talks a big talk but then goes on to hurt her more.
Because, well, just because Marcus' wife was raped and murdered a hundred years ago doesn't make him any less of a douchebag today.
So true. What happened to Isobel makes him an even bigger douchebag today in my opinion. He has bascially taken Damek's place in Krista's life which makes him even more of a smarmy little piece of shit.
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Date: 2006-09-03 06:27 am (UTC)Exactly. There's such a disconnect between Marcus' actions and his alleged romantic motivations (what TPTB want me to think), and yet the conflict is being played out between Chase and Krista. If Marcus turned her, without permission, then he should be the one guiding Krista, not Chase. As it stands now, Chase is the one doing all the dirty work while Marcus twiddles his thumbs and takes credit for the results.
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Date: 2006-09-03 04:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-03 07:01 am (UTC)That made me happy. Much like Damek taunting him with how inconsequential he was as a human made me happy. Anything that involves pain for Marcus is good tv for me.
And you're so right about Marcus being Krista's Damek, and I think it would be perfect for her to be the one that ultimately takes him out. If I'm supposed to support Marcus killing Damek, then Krista killing Marcus is only logical and should also be desired.
He took away her family, he isolated her from any connections to her former life and drugged her senseless when she wasn't cooperating. She has no one to turn to but him and his hench vamps, classic abuser behaviour.
So true. I mean I couldn't believe that after he found out that she had turned her mother and then killed her (an obvious cry for help, or at least a sign of someone in deep distress), and she turned up pissed out of her mind, that his solution to this was to beat her and then complain about HIS pain ("You think you're the only vampire that has ever felt pain?" Krista doesn't, but he clearly seems to think that whatever he went through 107 years before is more important than what Krista was going through). Such a prick.
I am waiting for him to be all "I wouldn't hit you if you didn't make me mad, it is your own fault."
Sigh. We didn't quite get that in Angels and Demons but it was close. More "Don't be mad at me for what I did to you, I'm in pain and sad". It's like he feels like he shouldn't have to take responsibilty for his actions because something bad happened to him ages ago that excuses all of his current behavior. He didn't give a shit about anything that Krista was going through, it was all about him and want he wanted, and after everything that he's done to her SHE ended up comforting HIM. WTF???
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Date: 2006-09-03 07:52 am (UTC)This is the part of the ep that made no sense at all for me. He goes on about family meaning nothing, embrace your new life, we are your new family and the past doesn't matter, and then the rest of the ep is about how the past does matter and how what happened to him before he was turned was the driving force in his life even now, 107 years later. Bullshit. The writers want it both ways, they want him to have the painfilled past and the avenging righteous hate, but he is also the cause of Krista's pain, and she is more than entitled to her own revenge, not a schmoopy love fest with the fucker that shot her brother. Marcus killing Zack was not even a byproduct of the bloodlust, a natural vampire thirst, it was done to keep him silent.
To me, the fact that Marcus gets to kill his tormentor Damek means that Krista should be able to get her revenge on Marcus, though hopefully we won't have to wait 107 years to see it.
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Date: 2006-09-03 05:24 am (UTC)This new relationship 'Karcus' ryhmes with 'carcass'. Which is about as lively as this relationship is and how I feel about it. Someone please put it out of it's (and our) misery!
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Date: 2006-09-03 06:03 am (UTC)And it does say something that Spike really is a less reprehensible character than Marcus. Spike had least gotten to know Buffy before the 'true love' shit kicked in. And like you said, Spike didn't kill Buffy's friends and family, in fact even though it post-being-chipped he actually helped save Buffy's family and the world.
Marcus just totally destroyed everything that Krista had in the world, and is now even taking away her sense of self.
Geez, more reason to hate M/K, it's making me defend Spike whom I hated so much that I couldn't even enjoy the last season of Angel because he had come over to taint another show.
I love the name Karcus for M/K though. I'm totally gonna start using it, because like you said it epitomizes the relationship so well.
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Date: 2006-09-03 06:18 am (UTC)Krista can still be saved! It's not too late! Spuffy may be permanently burned into the history books, but with Karcus we can just say Krista had a bout of temporary insanity (probably from drinking Marcus' blood. EW it's like an STD!). I don't think the writers would go for it though. Too bad.
Totally. Spike sacrificed himself to stop the First. That had at least some redemption points. He took care of Dawn when Buffy died. He was there helping to fight against Glory. He didn't have to, but he did. Marcus tore through Krista's life, set it ablaze and stood by and watched as she tried to put her life back into some semblance of order. He then had the audacity to say to her "You think you're the only vampire that's ever felt pain?" Bastard!
I feel your pain. I never watched Angel so I was saved from the pain. Go me.
That would make a totally useful snarky icon. I wish I had Photoshop (or at least something better than Corel...*cries*). It suits it. I wonder what the Karcus fangirls would have to say to that *evil laugh*.
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Date: 2006-09-03 06:18 am (UTC)But true love? That's like stuffing a viper and a mongoose in the same basket and saying "oh, they fight because they like each other." WTF?!? The whole basis for Krista's character is that - while being intensely driven and stubborn WAY past the point of being pig-headed - she's ended up being caught between what she knows is right and what the vampire instincts tell her. So even if she did 'love' Marcus (and I use the term loosely here), it would be because her blood-bond with him and her instincts made it happen. NOT because of any actual emotion.
As for him, he's a stupid whiner who needs to either shape up or just frigging die. Not even my WORST villian has ever had his idiocy. xD
*takes deep breath* Ahhh, much better. Now, if only it were time for the new ep already. ^^
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Date: 2006-09-03 07:02 am (UTC)[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Mage_of_Illuzen/Karcus.jpg[/IMG]
Not sure how well this worked out, first attempt at an icon - but I just had to do it after the Karcus comment. xD
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Date: 2006-09-03 07:06 am (UTC)Damnit, used the wrong tags. ^^;
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-09-03 09:01 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-09-03 07:59 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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Date: 2006-09-03 07:26 am (UTC)Word. Like Karcus if the writers had taken a different direction could have been interesting (might still be) but they have to get away from the 'tru wuv' of it all and focus it on dark, twisted and unhealthy. Like because of the blood bond they have I can see Krista still being attracted to him though she also hates him. How awesome would it be to have to take out her hate on him by like whipping him or beating him up in sexual situations or something. Like totally femdoming him and cursing him and herself for what they're doing. Like I wouldn't like to see that forever, but it would be a good step in her resolving her issues about him and being a vampire and would allow the pretty people to makeout before Karcus died for reals.
That's like stuffing a viper and a mongoose in the same basket and saying "oh, they fight because they like each other." WTF?!?
Brilliant.
As for him, he's a stupid whiner who needs to either shape up or just frigging die. Not even my WORST villian has ever had his idiocy. xD
I know! His plan makes no sense. He's a bad planner. He plans things badly. And he's so fucking smug about his idiotic plan which is just infuriating. Honestly I can't get my mind around what he hope to accomplish with the pureblood killing version of Aurora. He would have been so much better off just working on improving the formula Fritz was given and becoming virtually invulnerable.
Like I just don't see how the new Aurora is going to kill all the purebloods. If purebloods really are like aristocrats they're probably used to plots against their lives and attempted coups (even if the last one was like 300 years before many of them would still remember), and with three purebloods having gone missing I'd think there is no way he's going to be able to get them all in one room to wipe them all out. And if he only wipes out some, you gotta think the other purebloods are gonna be hella pissed and rain holy hell down on him for it.
Beyond that, I'm sure that there are many vampires who like the purebloods or at the very least don't have a problem and wouldn't like someone capsizing the boat because of a personal vendetta.
Bad, bad plan.
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Date: 2006-09-03 08:28 am (UTC)I don't really mind Marcus/Krista on screen (so far) as much. It's just the woobie-fying that creeps me rather out.
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Date: 2006-09-04 12:50 am (UTC)I just wanted to try out my new icon. I loves it. *pets it* Anyone know where I can find a good anti-Spuffy icon? I'll love you forever, lol.
Rune
Date: 2006-09-04 03:14 am (UTC)Yay! I'm glad someone likes it. *glee* Would'a done a Khase one too, but I've seen so many good ones it's like "Why? I can just glee over Fembuck's or the thousands of other awesome piccy goodness." xD
Re: Rune
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